Someone has written to me asking for my general opinion of TEFL International, and as there is so much information on this blog that it is hardly manageable I thought I had to repackage it in some way. This comparison is obviously one that comes up a lot and I’ve also investigated and written about the CELTA quite a lot, so this is what I’ve decided to try. As the comparison is based entirely on old blog posts quite a lot of this might be out of date (including the use of present tenses), but I still think it is useful as a snapshot of what both qualifications and organisations were like at one point in time. Unless otherwise stated, the quotes are from the Cambridge website and Bruce’s words in his interviews and comments here.
Staffing
Some complaints from critics that perfectly good trainers are rejected due to unimportant things like qualifications and specific Cambridge experience/ Some complaints from critics that some head trainers, trainers and observers are underqualified or have too little relevant experience.
“CVs for all proposed trainers and trainers-in-training must be submitted to the Cambridge ESOL Centre Approvals Administrator for approval.”/ “most resumes of trainers, and all resumes of our local moderators are sent to our head office to be approved of before hiring.”
There must be at least two fully trained up CELTA tutors on each course, whatever the number of trainees./ “Each center has 3 to 5 employees who work there full time. Each center is to have a minimal staff of a lead trainer, course administrator and secondary trainer. However, there are times when staffing may drop down to just a lead trainer and course administrator such as in very small courses or restructuring staff”
Cambridge asks for “the Cambridge ESOL DELTA, the Cambridge/RSA DTEFLA or Trinity Dip. TESOL. (MAs in ELT with a strong practical focus may also be acceptable provided the other conditions are also met)… (Please note that if the proposed trainer-in-training does not hold an in-service ELT award they would not be considered suitable for training.)”/ “We post and look for 5+ years teaching + dip or MA, although sometimes extensive experience can compensate for a lack of post-certificate qualifications. However, trainers we hire that may lack any post-certificate qualifications, we sponsor them to get it immediately (usually the TEFL Int’l Diploma program).” and on one site “TEFL International Co-Trainer Monika has been teaching English in Chiang Mai for more than 2 years now…. Monika gain her ESL Certification through the LICMU TEFL Certificate program last year…”
All lessons are observed and graded by the tutors, meaning someone with a higher qualification (usually a Diploma like the Delta) and at least five years of experience/ “We have employed recent grads to help with observations before. They are provided with training beforehand and given the checklist.”
Difficult to find a copy of English Teaching Professional or Modern English Teacher that doesn’t have a piece by a Cambridge trainer in it./ Difficult or impossible to find a copy of ETP or MET with a piece by a TEFL International trainer in it.
Many trainers are well known for writing books, articles and blogs that are of help to the TEFL world at large/ I’ve never noticed any of these things from TEFL International staff, despite asking many times to be pointed towards them.
“a member (or possibly two) of the teacher training team is required to supervise the selection procedure for applicants to the course and to interview prospective candidates.”/ Done centrally. Regular (or possibly obsessive?) TI critic Martin McMorrow has claimed to have once spent an afternoon posing as different unsuitable candidates and getting accepted on the course.
“In general, a CELTA assessor will have a minimum of two years’ experience of CELTA teacher training, with experience in all aspects and components of the CELTA, including course administration.”/ According to his CV, the moderator of all TEFL International courses has never worked as a trainer on a TEFL International course, but he is famous as an expert on materials development, which is understandably top in his eight areas of expertise. “Teacher development” is seventh and he was Senior Tutor at Bell from 1978-1980, which I imagine was a teacher training job.
Academic standards/ Recognition
Only 3% of people fail the CELTA, despite teaching not being for everyone and no test of teaching skills or experience needed before getting on the course. Approximately another 5% drop out during the course./ Rates are somewhat similar for TI.
The CELTA is a four week course which is pretty damn stressful and intense because they are trying to train you to teach all kinds of adult classes in that time. You can also do the highly respected 2 week extension on teaching kids, though it is difficult to find. Some people, mainly those who failed or dropped out, describe it as a “bootcamp” or complain about being clearly or harshly told they must improve to pass. / In the same four weeks as a CELTA, TEFL International claims to be able to also teach you how to teach kids and adults, including large classes (depending on location?), all the while stressing you out less than the CELTA.
The best schools in Thailand, the home of TEFL International, will usually prefer a CELTA to a TEFL International certificate/ You would have severe problems getting a decent TEFL job in the UK with a TEFL International certificate, as it is difficult enough with a CELTA
The Cambridge CELTA is the industry standard by which all other courses are judged, so much so that most training organisations don’t bother trying to criticise it and even try to claim that they are just as good./ Nobody has ever claimed that their qualification is the same standards as a TEFL International one. TEFL International is one of the few organisations that slags off the CELTA on its websites (“CELTA Certification…It is a limited certification for persons wishing to teach Further, Adult and Community Education in England.”, “At that time I did not know the format of CELTA was that out of every class of 12, two MUST fail.”, “I failed the [CELTA] course because I used green chalk during a practicum.”)
CELTA is the preferred qualification for respected international chain like the British Council, International House and Bell, with Trinity being a close second/ TI claims on their website: “ALL TEFL International TESOL certificate courses worldwide fully meet British Council criteria for employment within the British Council and at British Council-accredited language schools.” but according to a comment on this blog “A pal of mine’s cousin applied for a job at British Council and received this response ‘To date, TEFL International teacher training qualifications have not been approved as meeting British Council requirements for employment in our teaching centres around the world or as IELTS examiners. There is a process for obtaining such approval from the British Council, which has yet to be fulfilled by TEFL International as they have not provided the British Council with adequate documentary evidence of external validation of their qualifications. TEFL International did not obtain British Council consent to make references to our acceptance of their qualifications on their web sites or elsewhere. They have recently agreed to remove these but, as yet, not all have been removed. If you wish to pursue this matter further, then we advise you to contact TEFL International directly.’” Bruce said “I know of a few who have or are working [for the British Council]”, “I know of a few who have been hired [by International House]. Not sure of current status.” and “Bell hired a number of our trainees.”.
The preferred qualification for most British Council accredited schools in the UK, with Trinity a close second./ See above.
Often specifically mentioned in job ads (e.g. “Cambridge CELTA or equivalent”)/ Very rarely or never specifically mentioned in job ads (try Googling “TEFL International or equivalent” or similar, or see this).
There are too many famous names attached to Cambridge for them possibly to be able to mention, so they don’t bother. From what I remember International House Barcelona didn’t even make a big fuss about having Scott Thornbury as a trainer on their Cambridge courses./ Usually only one or two famous names at a time are willing to be publically linked with TEFL International, usually as a member of their Board of Academic Advisors (who never meet each other – according to Bruce – or presumably even communicate with each other, but instead have an opportunity to comment on the courses if they like while at TI giving workshops). None of these people are actually trainers on TI courses.
Some centres have more candidates than places or are precious about their 100% pass rate and so make it difficult to get on the course/ “We have much easier admissions procedures than CELTA courses because I believe CELTA scares away many potentially good teaches with its Draconian interview process. In my opinion, people are smart enough to know if they want to take the course and we are smart enough to know if they pass. Its a crazy concept, I know.”
Someone with a CELTA doesn’t need any job searching help or a “guaranteed job”, but most centres have relevant paper publications (usually EL Gazette) and will give informal advice on specific companies and countries. / Bruce said “school acceptance could be easier, because most schools just assume that any good certificate must be Trinity or CELTA.”
The organisation and its management
Run by Cambridge ESOL, part of UCLES, the largest exam board in Europe. This is in its turn part of Cambridge University, one of the world’s top universities, and is associated with Cambridge University Press and some of the most important English language corpora and other research/ Run by some bloke from Oregon in Ban Phe, Thailand who regularly gets into online spats and courtroom tussles. Bruce in response to my questions “Headquarters and number of people who work there full time?” “Oregon USA. Zero full time employees!” “Number of employees of the TEFL International US non-profit”: “Two”.
Cambridge ESOL offers other well-respected qualifications such as FCE, CAE, CPE, IELTS and BULATS (the last two in conjunction with other organisations), plus the industry-standard ICELT and Delta teacher training courses/ TEFL International offer a BA degree in TESOL in conjunction with a Thai university.
One criticism is that they are a bit anal, bureaucratic and obsessed with paperwork, and that makes them inflexible. Sometimes seen as a large, faceless bureaucratic organization/ Seems that nothing gets sorted out without the personal intervention of the CEO and founder, Bruce Veldhuisen. He tried to quit once but then came back to run it single handedly again. He seems to have spent a lot of time personally responding to online criticisms.
Marketing/ Online presence
Very little marketing of the CELTA by Cambridge, and seem to closely control marketing by the centres that offer their qualifications./ Agents of agents of agents, people who end up on TEFL International courses without even realising that is what they have signed up for, affiliate marketing (which can mean paying bloggers who know nothing about their courses for clicks on links they provide), lies on their websites about their competitors (see above), etc.
Representatives of Cambridge have never made any public statements about TEFL International./ For at least a year, TEFLlife.com included the totally inaccurate statement that Cambridge fails a certain number of people on each course however good they are and that someone failed a course for using the wrong coloured chalk. (See above for the quotes).
Most critics are people who failed the course and competitors./ Critics include people who failed the course, pissed off former business partners, people like me who think they are dragging us all down to their level, and random people who are gobsmacked by the content of their websites, their marketing strategies and the comments of their CEO.
Basically ignores online criticism and lets them get on with it/ Wheedles, threatens, insults and accuses in an attempt to remove all online criticism. Dave’s ESL Café regularly locks or deletes critical posts about TEFL International, including at least one example of letting representatives of TI comment when a thread has been blocked for other users. I’ve never seen those things happen for companies that don’t advertise there. I have criticised Cambridge and TEFL International about equally, and only received threats, insults, trolling etc from one of them.
Cambridge has a single section of a single website/ TI owns a mess of competing websites, often with contradictory information, plus it often isn’t clear what is their website and what is an agent’s. They do have useful information that Cambridge don’t however, such as feedback from all trainees and all moderation reports.
Business relationships
Cambridge ESOL qualifications are offered by respected chains such as Bell, International House, St Giles and British Council, as well as by quite a few universities./ Run by various random business partners and franchisees, including at least one that TEFL International later have to disown and even (threaten to?) sue.
No ownership of schools or franchising agreements./ “we are currently in negotiations with 5… schools. that would probably make the owned/franchised figure at close to 50/50. Personally I have no problem with that.” The biggest school is fully owned by the organisation that is supposed to be checking up on it.
“Institutions applying to run courses need to have been operating as an English language centre/department for at least three years and must be accredited by the relevant local accreditation agency.”/ Many or most TEFL International centres do not actually teach English, meaning they are often not covered by the local accreditation agencies, e.g. the lack of British Council accreditation by their centre in London.
International House in London have run what became the CELTA since the late 70s, gaining an impressive reputation and virtually creating TEFL as we know it./ TEFL International have spawned endless imitators who copy their marketing techniques.
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More on this blog on these two organisations, including sources of this piece, via the Cambridge CELTA and TEFL International tags below.
TEFLtastic 
I have been following the TEFL wars for years. I have since worked in Indonesia, Thailand and Vietnam and come across a fair number of TEFL International graduates. None of them appear to have any issues with the course they received.
I understand you do not like the “in your face” marketing that you associate with TEFL International and you consistently praise the low-key approach of the CELTA. I have come to the conclusion that it might be possible that while CELTA does not promote itself it may very well be behind these nonsensical attacks of TEFL International. Addition by subtraction as it were.
And if they are, i hope you are getting paid for this. You have certainly been the ringleader.
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Have a look at these posts and tell me if you still think I’m being paid by Cambridge:
Problems with the CELTA and YL extension
Becoming a CELTA centre
Loving and hating the Cambridge CELTA
Online CELTA on the way
The CELTA ten commandments
Don’t do the CELTA
CELTA interview fees
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It would only make sense to try to cover your tracks if you were smart.
Well done!
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The Cambridge ESOL conspiracy……
I really think not. Most of us with a CELTA and a few years of experience have better things to do….
If you want to be a teacher with a good chance on the ESL job market do a CELTA. If you want an overpriced piece of paper that claims to be the same and might get you a work visa in some countries for some fly-by-night place then do a TEFL international.
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“It would only make sense to try to cover your tracks if you were smart.
Well done!”
??
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“Tom” (i.e. Bruce). Give up buddy. Go and do something more constructive with your life. Sell cars or something, you’d be good at that.
And the fact that you “encountered” TEFL International grads in Indonesia, Vietnam and Thailand says a lot considering they’re all basically unregulated markets well-known for having low entry standards to employment. Unsurprisingly you don’t ever see TEFL International grads in Australia where I work. They wouldn’t even come close to meeting minimum NEAS standards for CRICOS and schools would be breaking the law by employing them.
God I love the drama of the regular TEFLtastic TEFL International-baiting articles.
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Tom is not Bruce (and it’s difficult to believe that you really think he is). I do not bait TEFL International, I analyse them for people who might be thinking of dealing with them and in the vague hope I might have some positive impact on standards in our “profession”.
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CELTA CELTA CELTA CELTA CELTA CELTA CELTA CELTA CELTA CELTA CELTA CELTA CELTA CELTA CELTA CELTA CELTA CELTA CELTA CELTA CELTA CELTA CELTA CELTA CELTA CELTA CELTA CELTA CELTA CELTA CELTA CELTA
MY GOD I hate that word.
I am a US-licensed teacher with a specialization in Bilingual Ed. I have taught in the US and several countries in Central America and Asia. Most would call me very well qualified to teach ESL.
Lucky for me I have had the pleasure of working with a few CELTA certificate holders. In those magical four weeks they have become world-renown experts in teaching English. One of them, God help us, got a distinction! You would think the little creep would never need to learn another thing about teaching in his life.
I have no idea who TEFL International is, but if they are at least teaching their students that their four-week course is just an introduction to teaching then they are far better than these idiot who took the CELTA. I cannot respect a training course that turns out such arrogant, unteachable egomaniacs.
Anything but CELTA. For the good of the students and your co workers, ANYTHING but the CELTA.
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“if they are at least teaching their students that their four-week course is just an introduction to teaching”
Unlike Cambridge, who defines CELTA as a TEFL-I (TEFL-initial) qualification to be followed after at least two years by a TEFL-Q (TEFL-qualified) qualification such as the Cambridge Delta or the Trinity DipTESOL??
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“It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat.”
Teddy Roosevelt
Speech at the Sorbonne, Paris, April 23, 1910
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That’s a bit classier than your earlier personal attacks to distract attention from the content of the posts on your organisation, Bruce – you must be mellowing in your old age. No more accurate than the other attacks though – are you honestly suggesting that I only criticise and neither create anything nor contribute to the world of TEFL?
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This show is getting really old.
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I wouldn’t call myself an expert but I have been teaching a few years now and like most of the rest of you I’ve come across teachers with different certificates and some of course no certificates at all. The teachers that I’ve met that took the tefl international couse all seems to know what they were doing, especially when compared to ii-to I or others of the same ilk.
Is it just me or is there something behind this witch hunt?
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It’s not a witch hunt (it’s fewer than 1% of the posts on this blog and to give one of many examples of other organisations I have analysed there’s a post criticising the new ETP/MET website at the top of the blog right now), and the reason behind it is very clearly explained:
“Someone has written to me asking for my general opinion of TEFL International, and as there is so much information on this blog that it is hardly manageable I thought I had to repackage it in some way.”
As no one has contradicted even one of the points in the post, am I to assume that my caveat about the information above possibly being out of date was unnecessary?
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Someone asked you? Really? I honestly fine that hard to believe. That’s a bit like asking rush Limbaugh if he likes barak Obama.
And who reading this is obcessed enough to bother contradicting you and coming under attack? You have your opinions and no one is going to change your mind. After all, how many times did you interview the ti boss? Twenty?
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Believe what you like – someone did ask me, and that someone emailed me today to thank me for my help with this and some other recent posts.
Do you expect me to believe that an attack like that comes from a disinterested observer whose only connection to TI is having worked with a couple of people who trained with them?
Five. Is interviewing someone your idea of attacking them?
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Its you that’s on the witch hunt. We’re all just laughing at you. Except for the guys at ti of course.
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come to think of it, if I had a ti cert I might be mad, too. In fact I would be organizing. But good luck with your crusade.
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No, its not a witch hunt. But to quote you, “there is so much information on this blog” about ti. Just curious, can you tell me what you have ever said about ti that’s positive?
We’ll wait.
But we won’t hold our breath.
Lol I don’t have a ti cert but even to me you come across as a….
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As with this post, most of the words about TI on this blog are from their own owner and websites. If that reflects badly on them, that is hardly my fault. As to my own statements, in just the previous post I said that TI isn’t a scam and there are far worse out there. Their owner and CEO claims, however, that they are at least as good as Cambridge. For the first time ever, I believe, people now have all the information in one place to make up their own minds on that. As Bruce Veldhuisen also claims they are second only to Cambridge in size (and the world’s biggest actual course provider), I think that is something that people in the industry more generally should also take some kind of interest in.
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One critical blog, fair enough. Two critical blogs, slight overkill. Three critical blogs, personal vendetta. Ten? For what appears to be a decent course with content students? The blogger is getting his rocks off in a very twisted way. There is no other way to spin this.
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So, you have no answers to any of the points I have made in my comments? Just to start with, how do you explain the fact that one of only two articles I have had published in EL Gazette was criticizing CELTA providers for charging interview fees? Or that two of my very first TEFL articles were critical examinations of the Cambridge DELTA? And how about the fact that the only time I have called for other bloggers to spread my message was related to Paul Lowe of Windsor TEFL, a dodgy UK based TEFL course provider (later found guilty of fraud) who has no connection to TI at all? And how about the fact that I’ve done a critical piece on the new CMU course, a centre that competes with the TI-associated UniTEFL (which used to be the old CMU course)?
As to the ten posts, five of them were Bruce’s responses in his own words with no commentary from me – and at the time he seemed very happy to have free use of my blog to send out his message. Three of them were one post split up because I found too much bs on one site to fit into one post. All three of them were because I very fairly offered to look at that site again for the changes that had been made after my first analysis of that one site – something I came across while working on an article completely unrelated to TI but found was so eye poppingly bad that I couldn’t ignore it. My pieces on (the totally unconnected) TEFLSpain etc appeared at the same time for the same reason. The other two couldn’t possibly appear as a search result for TI because it isn’t mentioned in their titles, they were simply examples of terrible SEO marketing that is a common complaint of mine which I have mentioned in connection with all kinds of providers.
Anyway, if a blogger could write several negative blog posts about a company without repeating himself or herself, would that reflect badly on the blogger or badly on the course?
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I have to side with confused. It was you that kept asking more questions in interview after interview. In hindsight it would appear you were not trying to do anything but find areas where you could criticize. It turned into a farce and now it worse, its a witch hunt.
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Well, as your point since you first commented has always been that because lots of people have criticised TI before no further criticism is acceptable, you would.
Every comment from you guys that fails to address the content of the posts just emphasizes that everything I have written is accurate.
Which definition of witch-hunt did you have in mind?
“An investigation carried out ostensibly to uncover subversive activities but actually used to harass and undermine those with differing views.”
or
“A rigorous campaign to round up or expose dissenters on the pretext of safeguarding the welfare of the public”?
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Well done, Alex. That’s a very informative post that gives a fair and balanced representation of the situation at hand – and all in their own words. As for your critics, neither Stephan nor Confused have pointed out a single inaccuracy with your piece, so that leaves me wondering what their motives might be. When all people can do is revert to name calling (twisted, farce, witch hunt…), then it’s a very strong sign that you’ve done an excellent job as a blogger/journalist.
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And TEFLista shows up. Alex = TEFLista. Everyone knows that. Glad he agrees with you. This is really boring now.
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So, it’s bad for me to quote Bruce’s own words, but it is okay for you to (semi) anonymously claim I am posting under different names on my own blog with no evidence? Or is your evidence that I have so many problems posting my honest opinion under my own name that I have to use others?
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PS
“This is boring” has to be the best argument ever. I’m thinking of taking down everything I’ve ever written about TI after reading that, because I’ve suddenly realised none of it is true…
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No, I’m not Alex and never have been. In fact, Alex has even deleted a few of my posts!
Still name calling – boring. Is that the best you can do?
I still see no inaccuracies pointed out by either of you…
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I have been lurking here for years. I have never commented before. Its become quite obvious that you already “know” everything.
Have you ever taken a TEFL International course? No. You have taken a CELTA.
I know many teachers who were very happy with their training at TEFL International. In fact I cannot name anyone who was not happy.
I am one of the few people who have both experiences.
You do not know what you are talking. But your arrogance shows you would make an ideal CELTA trainer. In fact I am sure I met “you” in Bangkok.
I deleted last names and changed Email addresses. Unlike you, its not a hobby of mine to publicly embarrass people for no good reason other than being an a$$hole. Sorry for the name calling. Its just an accurate description.
———- Forwarded message ———-
From: James ??????
To: celta@ihban???.com, md@ihban???k.com, affiliates@ihwo???.co.uk
CC: profess??????? banphe?????????, brucev????????
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2010 19:23:44 +0700
Subject: International House Bangkok CELTA and TEFL International TESOL Ban Phe
Attention: Danny W?????????
Managing Director
Hello Danny,
You struck me as a straight shooter and a gentleman when I sat with you for a pre-course interview prior to the August, 2010 CELTA course at International House in Bangkok which I enrolled in but dropped out of Thursday morning of the first week after a sleepless night of anxiety and worry following an exasperated and sometimes rather cranky critique of my first teaching practice given by one of your trainers to our group of six trainees. Although I previously characterized the feedback as “fair and balanced” and “necessary”, I now see that it was an impatient and slightly mean evaluation given that it was the early stage of our training and my first training practice. I also see that it was unnecessary and counterproductive.
The reason for my more perceptive perspective is the valuable TEFL International four week teacher training course that I recently completed in Ban Phe.
The thing that is most significant, I think, about the Ban Phe TEFL International course, the evidence of thoughtful and creative program design and skillful delivery, is that the directions and guidance we trainees were given in order to relate to and work effectively with Thai students was mirrored in the way our Trainer related to and worked effectively with us.
Consistently and continually applauding successful teaching behavior by “picking on” individual trainees while patiently dealing with performance and teaching behavior that was counterproductive or needed polishing without naming anyone was an effective, inspirational way to make us understand and allow us to feel the student-motivation reason for dealing with student errors by T/T remodeling rather than spotlighting the error and the student, the reason for creating a “safe place to risk”, the reason for controlled practice and repetition for confidence building and fluency.
You might consider sending some of your CELTA trainers to Ban Phe for a dusting off of the layer of impatience, crankiness, elitism and hypocrisy that I now realize exists at International House in Bangkok.
CELTA and International House in Bangkok have things to learn from TEFL International in Ban Phe.
a very satisfied TEFL International graduate,
James XXXXXXXX
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Game, set, match.
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Reading this post, bruce has had this email for two years and never used it? Alex, you owe him a huge apology. This really now very funny. Alex the amazing critic and author of crossword puzzles and fill-in hand outs with a lot of egg on his face.
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That is an interesting story that I take seriously, but it doesn’t contradict a single thing that is written above. As I have no further information on the matter, don’t think I can really say more than that.
“confused” really did choose his/ her name well – crossword puzzles????
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Hilarious. It contradicts your entire opinion of tefl international. Just unfortunate that it is stuck on the the bottom of the comments section. Bruce should havebeenthrowing this back in your face two years ago. But it shows, despite your many attacks against “‘some bloke from Oregon living in Thailand” who is the bigger man. And the initials are not AC.
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I have not and could not make any statements about what goes on in the classrooms of any course I have not taken or been a trainer on myself – and that includes the CELTA as I took the old RSA/ Cambridge CTEFLA. Find me a single inaccurate statement I have made about those things at TI, or indeed anywhere else. In fact, you have yet to point out a single inaccurate statement I have made about anything – something surely you could easily have done with the amount of time you have instead spent on here throwing about primary school playground fighting talk…
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And try and find a single crossword puzzle or simple gapfill worksheet I have made while you are at it, assuming that it what your comment was supposed to mean.
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Here is the lesson we should learn, according to Mr. Crossword, Alex Case.
Its more important to follow certain procedures and mimic CELTA exactly than actually run a good course.
Now I see why you are the amazing critic that you are.
Signed,
Some bloke from Utah living in thailand
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Hey ti teachers, get together and do something about Alex Case. That’s my suggestion.
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If there was some magic way of fairly judging what goes on in the classroom without actually being there, that of course would be better and we could all choose the cert, provider, centre and actual trainers that we had magically determined to be the best in the world. There is lots of musing on this blog on the topic, e.g:
https://tefltastic.wordpress.com/2011/04/21/ranking-like-universities/, but as things stand (and probably as things will ever be) there is no such system. That being the case, the closest trainees can get are to think about:
– Ability to get jobs with the qualification
– Recognition and reputation
– Qualifications, experience etc of the staff
– Honest marketing
– Low chances of the organisation disappearing
– Management/ Admin
Hence the comparison above. Have you even read the whole of that comparison, btw?
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It was only a matter of time before the complete lack of logical argument turned into threats instead…
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OK now that you admit you know nothing about the actual quality of the course, which to any logical person should be the most important issue, lets look at what you find important.
Ability to get jobs with the qualification- where are the ti people complaining? You Re telling me that a ti grad with a good letter of recommendation cannot get pretty much any job they want? Give me examples. Certainly no issues I have ever seen. Even with silly online courses, tefl is like a hair cut–the difference between a good one and a bad one is a bit of teaching experience and a good recommendation.
Recognition and reputation- again you are the one complaining, not the ti teachers. So is this really an issue? No. Only in your own mind. The titeachers I have met are well trained and have given ti a good reputation for training teachers. Any evidence to contradict or just opinion? Thought not.
Qualifications, experience etc of the staff- the earlier post destroys this argument. Obviously the trainer are better qualified and experienced.
Honest marketing- dishonest marketing would mean teacher complaining they were lied to. Instead we have your opinion. I will go with the teachers.
Low chances of the oganisation disappearing- are you now claiming ti is going out of business? Interesting claim. Based on what facts?
Management/ Admin. And has a ti teacher complained? Did they email head office with a problem and no one answered them? Was there some unresolved issue? Not that I can see. Instead its that alex case, mr. Crosword, does not like their style. And that s so important because you are an expert.
Can you now see why people have begun why we can all se this is some pointless personal vendetta? Why you look like an arrogant fool? You are creating the issues. And that’s why ti teachers should be angry.
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I have no basis for threats. I’m not a ti teacher. But if your posts make me mad, so I am sure ti teachers are furious, or they should be.
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By the way I read the comparison and thought it was written in a style you would call primary school playground fighting talk.
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All the points you raise are answered in the post you have apparently read (and in which you have apparently found nothing specific to object to).
“It’s got nothing to do with me, but I’m going to get a whole bunch of people to gang up on you” is still a threat.
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With all due respect, he refuted everything in your post. In fact, just for a laugh, I can turn the whole thing around and list the authoritative reasons why TEFL International is better than the CELTA. All this is subjective anyway, which is why your degradation of TEFL International is meaningless. You are no expert. Its just your opinion.
– Ability to get jobs with the qualification
When I interviewed teachers in Vietnam the TEFL Internatonal teachers were always able to immediately teach a sample lesson on a moments notice and they were better trained to teach larger classes. So its fair to say they can get better jobs than CELTA graduates!
– Recognition and reputation
Amongst local teachers the TEFL International name was better known from their annual free training seminars in HCMC and their work with UNESCO.
– Qualifications, experience etc of the staff
I believe TEFL International in HCMC still has the same trainer for the past seven years.
– Honest marketing
CELTA does not market because its not selling its courses, the individual centers do that. But I do remember an ad a few years back claiming that the CELTA was the “most rigorous” course. I thought at the time, how can they know? They simply can’t. It was dishonest advertising.
– Low chances of the organization disappearing: o Alex if you needed to get your certificate replaces, what would you do? TEFL International has has the same organization in place since the beginning. CELTA has bounced around between IH, RSA and now UCLES. It seems like TEFL International is far more stable.
– Management/ Admin: I appreciate the fact that TEFL International is so transparent. CELTA is not. Again advantage TEFL International.
Don’t take these comments too seriously. My point is that anyone looking to run something down, can and will. The only sad part about this Alex is you fail to see how biased you are.
Think about it.
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You can indeed “prove” anything if you take a sample size of one. However, you do provide some valuable data that should be taken into account. If anyone can find a better way of putting all such evidence together than this post and its comments section, feel free to suggest it or put it together yourselves.
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A better way? My suggestion for you is to get out of the “running down good courses to promote the CELTA” business, Alex. Thats a “better way”.
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By the way where do you get this?
TEFL International is one of the few organisations that publically slags off the CELTA
I think its a lie.
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I do not mean to pile on but here is my favorite “creative criticism” of TEFL International by Alex Case:
“In general, a CELTA assessor will have a minimum of two years’ experience of CELTA teacher training, with experience in all aspects and components of the CELTA, including course administration.”/ According to his CV, the moderator (singular) of TEFL International courses has never worked as a trainer on a TEFL International course.
OK, so apparently Brian Tomlinson, someone who is quite well known in ELT, is not qualified to moderate the course? That’s pretty creative, Alex.
My experience with moderations is they tend to be an old boy network. I moderate your course, he moderates my course, none of us are going to cause any real waves. Sometimes the same person moderates the same course voer and over again because he likes going there. Sometimes different moderators come and recommend different and sometimes opposite things.
Having one very professional moderator that has nothing to gain seems to be a big improvement. Unless you just want to slag off TEFL International in any way possible. Right, Alex?
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Teacher girl, you also forgot to mention that all those moderation reports are available for anyone to see, online.
Where are the CELTA reports?
Maybe it would not be as difficult to really make TEFL International look like a better choice, just using real facts (instead of creating them like Alex does).
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I did not know that. Do you have a link?
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I knew their feedback was online, which I already thought was very transparent. Even their moderation reports are online?
Alex, you should be very embarrassed.
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I love the moderation reports “argument” :-) It’s like asking little kids what they would like for dinner and they say gumdrops and jellybeans. Then after the meal you ask them if they liked it. Of course, it will be quite some time later on before they realize that they just ate a sack of sugar without any vitamins in it.
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Dumb dumb, a moderation report is done by the moderator.
Alex, your alter ego is not very bright is he?
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TEFLista, first of all you are confusing moderation with feedback. So you kind of look foolish right from the start.
Next, can you honestly say that you hear TEFL International teachers complaining about their training? I was in Vietnam for four years and never heard a single complaint from the teachers I knew. Shall I Email a few and see if they have complaints now that they have been teaching for four or five years?
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No need to Email anyone. Its just like TEFLista said, it jelly beans and candy. LOL
We all got just a little bit dumber from reading his comment.
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TEFLista, can you give any evidence at all that the course is lacking in content? I know the course is rumored to be more supportive and less demeaning than the CELTA, but in my mind that’s a good thing and supports the ability to learn more than the “boot camp approach.
But where is there any evidence that the course is some easy course that you can compare it to kids having jelly beans for dinner? I was just reading the moderation reports and it seems every course has all the normal content of a TESOL course.
Or is this some kind of twisted game for you? If so, I feel a bit sorry for you.
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This whole thing is sad. It makes any objective person wonder why they make things up and try to tear things down.
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One thing is clear. Someone who doesn’t know what moderation is has no business commenting on tefl courses. Ever.
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Teacher girl, great posts. It does not take a lot of effort to show Alex case’s objective is to belittle tefl international by twisting things.
Lets hope there are ultimate consequences.
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I agree that Teacher Girl has made some very relevant points, especially the moderation one, which I will try to deal with one by one whenever I have time. Would anyone object if I also deleted some less relevant comments by others so that hers and those by Satisfied… come high enough to actually be read by anyone who might actually end up at this post? (Not decided myself whether that is a good idea or even possible, just considering it)
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Just my opinion, but unless you deleted your entire snarky attack of TEFL International its all just a waste of time.
And what about your lie where you state:
“TEFL International is one of the few organisations that publically slags off the CELTA”
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And suddenly alex wants to appear fair and impartial. Do you think you’re fooling anyone? Perhaps you just realize maybe a great deal of trouble.
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To get this one out of the way before I start on Teacher Girl’s much more serious points:
“CELTA Certification…It is a limited certification for persons wishing to teach Further, Adult and Community Education in England.”
“At that time I did not know the format of CELTA was that out of every class of 12, two MUST fail.”
“I failed the [CELTA] course because I used green chalk during a practicum.”
From two different visits to TEFLlife.com, one of the main TI sites. The second of those two visits was over a month after Bruce had been made aware of the problems with the site and had made quite a few changes. But I do believe all three of you have seen both of my posts on that site before…
Post now changed to include those quotes.
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Am working my way down the comments from the top, will get to the main ones soon…
I absolutely agree that TI is better than i-to-i, and have laid into them plenty of times here:
https://tefltastic.wordpress.com/?s=i-to-i
and on forums all the time.
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Something reflecting the comment by Satisfied TEFL International Teacher also added to the post.
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Answering the comments about “Ability to get jobs with the qualification”:
I really can’t believe you are arguing with this one, especially given the quote by Bruce above complaing about exactly this. If Bruce doesn’t convince you, how about this?
http://www.usingenglish.com/profiles/tdol/archives/000465.html
From one of Bruce’s interview’s I was willing to admit that in some countries TI might be better known than Trinity, but you make it seem like you’ll say anything to support TI by suggesting the same about CELTA. It might well be that in your case (Teacher Girl) you had two candidates with the same level of experience, one with a TI cert and one with the CELTA, and chose the former for that reason (though you don’t exactly say that). You really have to admit that there are loads of bosses making the exact opposite decision (for good or bad reasons) all the time. If you can’t even concede that, there really is no point continuing this discussion.
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Problems with your claims, Alex:
1. I did a google search of “is a limited certification for persons wishing to teach Further, Adult and Community Education in England” and the only place that quote seems to appear is your website.
2. I did a Google search of “At that time I did not know the format of CELTA was that out of every class of 12, two MUST fail.” The first three hits were this site and your blog. The fourth was a TEFL International site that clearly stated:
(These are unedited opinions of our graduates and they do not reflect the beliefs of our organization).
Not looking good, Alex.
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“I absolutely agree that TI is better than i-to-i, and have laid into them plenty of times here:
https://tefltastic.wordpress.com/category/tefl/t-training/qualifications/cert/i-to-i/
and on forums all the time.”
And yet this is at least your 10th major blog devoted to destroying the reputation of TEFL International.
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What, you mean some of these things were only true at the time I wrote the original blog posts but have since changed?? If only I’d known that and put that into the introduction of the post!!!
“(These are unedited opinions of our graduates and they do not reflect the beliefs of our organization)” Well, in that case it’s definitely okay to publish obvious lies about their competitors then.
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Being better than i-to-i ain’t saying much.
There are at least five blog posts plus loads of forum entries where I slag off i-to-i (there would be more if they had ever accepted my repeated offers to interview someone from there), but obviously that’s not enough to be a witch hunt. What is the transition point, exactly? Six blog posts? Seven?
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Alex I have a few problems. The first is that I am not British. So I do not just automatically think CELTA is the best thing since sliced bread. Next, I actually see these teachers teach.
No two teachers are exactly the same. When i put recent CELTA grads in front of a classroom of 40 real Vietnamese students the odds are that they will be shaking in their shoes. As good as the CELTA is, its not designed for teaching in these kinds of situations. On the other hand, TEFL International students are usually unfazed, because their training better prepares them for these situations.
Its four weeks. I do not believe TEFL International is better than the CELTA. But I know it has its strengths. And I have not been raised (dare I say brainwashed) belittle any other course that’s not run by UCLES.
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So, that is why you cannot bring yourself to admit the obvious truth that CELTA is (for better or worse) the best TEFL course for actually getting a job (even though Bruce himself admits exactly that – though obviously as a complaint of unfairness)? As I said, I will not continue a discussion with someone who refuses to admit (or tries to wriggle out of admitting) perhaps the most incontrovertible fact in TEFL training. When we’ve got that out of the way, I would be very interested in following up some of your more reasonable points.
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So i to i is worse but you still devote twice as much time to belittling TEFL International. That makes perfect sense.
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Alex I hope you will agree that there is a difference between being more recognized by name and better for getting a job. I think I described my reasoning for preferring TEFL International grads for certain jobs. But that is not always the case. If I were the DOS at IH I might always choose the CELTA grad.
But what you seem to be telling us is that there is only room for one TESOL curse in the entire world and that is the CELTA. Is that honestly what you believe? I hope not.
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Stephen – let’s try some maths, shall we? I don’t know where you got ten from, but 5 posts were interviews of Bruce. How is asking someone questions (and always leaving them the option of not answering) belittling a course? Even if we do take it that way for some strange reason, as it happens three of those posts were just one interview split into three.
Four of the posts were just analysing a single TEFL International site. I have done exactly the same for many other sites (in fact more thoroughly by looking at every single page), e.g. TEFLSpain and CMU TEFL, but I’ve never found enough to be able to stretch it to more than one post before. So, you can either take it as one post or you can see that much bs on one site as a judgement on them.
The other two are just straightforward posts on some of their marketing (or, more likely, that of their affiliates), and I’ve criticised loads of other schools (including St Giles, a CELTA/ Trinity obsessive school who I briefly worked for) for joining in such silly games.
You still haven’t answered my question. What’s the magic number that makes it a witch hunt?
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Like it or not, I would agree it looks like a witch hunt. Interview the guy once, rake him and his organization over the coals a time or two and move on. You have been at this for years, Alex.
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Teacher Girl – So, are you finally admitting than in the profession as a whole there are more DoSs that prefer CELTA to those that prefer TI?
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So you are trying to tell us that the guy who apparently had an email that makes the CELTA and IH look like arroant fools, yet never published it, the one quoted as saying the CELTA is a good course, slags off the CELTA because one their grads said some negative things? Wow. Just wow. This coming from you. Wow.
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So, because I first criticised i-to-i years ago I should be stuck on a maximum of five posts on them too? I’ve written about my doubts about the Online CELTA three times. How many more am I allowed?
If TI (or, again, more likely one of their affiliates) indulges in the tacky marketing nonsense that I wrote about in the post before this, I should ignore it because I’ve reached the magic number of blog posts on them before? It makes no sense at all. I’ve only analysed one site, the same as for a bunch of schools. I’ve interviewed the boss of apparently the largest TEFL course provider in the world three times, as against once for a whole bunch of people and no reply from a whole bunch more I’ve asked. If any of you had ever read a non-TI related post on this (or any other?) TEFL blog, perhaps you wouldn’t have such an odd idea of the place TI has in my blogging and TEFL life…
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Maybe. I do not work for either organization. I would say the industry, in Asia anyway, is moving away from small English schools (where CELTA might be better training) towards teaching in schools and larger classes (where TEFL International might be better training).
But none of this is really my point at all. i am not here trying to say TEFL International is better than CELTA. I am just asking why are you creating this issue when its a good course? Is everything that’s not CELTA unacceptable? Thats just strange to me. I simply do not understand your point of view.
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Just change your name to Alex Hate.
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Nominated, post of the year. Lol
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Now, now, boys. Play nice.
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TG – Do I really need to explain this again? Somebody who knows that I’ve written about TI before asked me for a summary of my views (unsurprising given the hundreds of comments he would have to read through to learn all that I have learnt since the first interview). I decided comparing TI and Cambridge was a good way of doing it as I had similar information on the two organisations from old blog posts and it seemed like a question people must be asking themselves all the time if TI is indeed number two after Cambridge as they claim (and seems possible). Starting with all of Bruce’s interview answers and comments, I boiled it down to the topics that matched with what I’d found while pretending to be a school that wanted to be a CELTA provider. And here it is. It’s not supposed to be the last word on the matter (hence the comments function, the changes I’ve made, and in fact the existence of the rest of the internet), but I think it was worthwhile to put the info up for people to make up their own minds from.
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Now if people can stop distracting me with other questions (TG) or utterly pointless comments (the other two), after I’ve finished cooking dinner I will try to get to the moderation question, which I basically agree with TG on and would like to examine further so I can make perhaps make changes to the post.
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Alex, you did everything you could to belittle TEFL International and praise CELTA. Some of it was so obvious it was laughable, like your comment about the single moderator never having taught a TEFL International course, failing to mention who that moderator was. You were just being a jerk. Perhaps you were having a bad day or had some bad memories of past blogs. But whatever the reason you failed to give TEFL International any benefit of the doubt, going so far as to personally attack the boss as “some bloke from Oregon living in Thailand” It was mean spirited in every way.
And if you cannot see that then I agree that any ongoing discussion is pointless.
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The problem is, Mr. Hate, for you its never the last word in the matter. Come three months from now you will be discussing how bad TEFL International is again, dredging up old grudges that you seem unable to put in the past.
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I am through. Some people don’t understand their own bias and just can’t see the damage they can do.
Sorry to all my TEFL International teacher friends. I did my best. You are good teachers. Do not let Alex Case tell you otherwise.
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Don’t give up Teacher Girl!
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“You are good teachers. Do not let Alex Case tell you otherwise.”
When have I ever mentioned the teaching abilities of anyone? It’s a shame, you make some decent points but you’re using every trolling tactic in the book.
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I hope that was a joke, because you must know that your misplaced efforts are damaging the reputation of not only ti but every one of the thousands of teachers that hold their certificate.
All for some petty grudge. Pathetic.
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I notice now you just want to call her a troll and ignore her points. They were spot on. But now you just dismiss her as a troll. Convenient.
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I’m not dismissing her points, I specifically said they are good points but putting words in my mouth is clearly trolling. And who I am supposed to debate with if she is really gone – you two?????
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This never was a debate. it was always a witch hunt. We are just calling you on it.
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I must nominate this as the post of the year:
“Alex, you did everything you could to belittle TEFL International and praise CELTA. Some of it was so obvious it was laughable, like your comment about the single moderator never having taught a TEFL International course, failing to mention who that moderator was. You were just being a jerk. Perhaps you were having a bad day or had some bad memories of past blogs. But whatever the reason you failed to give TEFL International any benefit of the doubt, going so far as to personally attack the boss as “some bloke from Oregon living in Thailand” It was mean spirited in every way.”
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Seconded!
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Where is TEFLista to explain about the moderation being like jelly beans? LOL
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Well I had been looking at courses and after reading this I will certainly not be taking a TEFL International course.
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LOL Back after the Internet went down for the day. OMG, look at all of these posts — you have been very busy. TG is absolutely right. I was thinking feedback and not moderation reports, and I’m not afraid to say so — I shouldn’t have posted before even having a coffee first thing in the morning.
Since you brought it up, I do have a question for you about that. All of the moderation reports have one person’s name on them. Seeing how courses are offered in different countries at the same time and this person is based in the UK, how does that person actually keep track of what’s going on in the classroom? For example, point 16 states: “ Each trainee appeared to be comfortable, confident and competent during observed teaching practice.” Perhaps you could tell us about the process?
Thanks
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You must be joking. TEFLista, do you think anyone believes you are here to do anything but cause trouble?
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So you are dodging the question, yet at the same time you and CT also state that TI is transparent about moderation reports and so they are better than the CELTA. TI claims that they have thousands take their courses each year, yet a single person with a big name is making the affirmation on the TI moderation reports that “ Each trainee appeared to be comfortable, confident and competent during observed teaching practice.” Surely this person has not observed thousands of lessons from Argentina to Thailand and all the while being based in the UK most of the time. So then, how is it that TI makes such a claim ?
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Actually thats not what I said at all. I said you are here to make trouble and you are proving that. Why do you guys feel so badly about yourselves? Didn’t mommy love you? Have to pick fights?
I have no idea how it works. You need to ask someone who knows. But why would anyone answer? You already have made up your mind.
I do know when I took my TEFL (not TI) the moderator did not observe a single one of our classes. Oh it must not be special. but wait! it was Trinity! How can that be?
Its just like the jelly beans. You are an expert.
Idiot. LOL
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I’ve wasted enough time on haters.
From my experience in Vietnam the teachers who were trained by TI were very good and in some situations better than those with CELTA.
And I think I probably know more about it than Alex Case. I certainly do not have any axe to grind.
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There’s this cool thing. Its called “the internet”. You should check it out.
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Don’t know where I saw this, but fairly sure I read that Brian Tomlinson watches videos of the input sessions and teaching practice.
If my bias is really that painfully obvious, surely you’d all be happy for the post to stay this way so that people could see right through me… However, as you’ve complained about it I’ve done a minor edit to make it seem more even handed.
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If true, then that’s good to know. Still, seems like it would be an impossible task for the thousands of students that TI claims. How would that be possible?? The way it worked before Brian Tomlinson was that there were many different people who did the reports from each center and those were posted online under their names. I wouldn’t be surprised if nothing has changed, other than the moderator now just rubber stamping what he is told from the centers, but maybe.
I think the big difference is the way TI keeps saying to people look at the student feedback, look at the moderation reports of Dr.X, look at the student feedback, look at the moderation reports of Dr.X… then when you call them on it they say, well I don’t know anything about it and throw in some insults.
The student feedback is moot. Just because they liked it doesn’t mean that it was a good course (just like candy for dinner for the kids…) And, surprisingly, feedback from most TEFL courses (both good and bad) is usually positive, unless it’s a scam — and neither of us has ever said that TI is a scam, so just what is it that they are trying to prove? Do they constanly need to remind people that they are not a scam?
If Tomlinson does do the video thing, it would be interesting to know how he accounts for such a large cohort of trainees.
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This is great, we have Alex speculating and TEFLista questioning his speculation.
We are back to the old tag team.
No one needs to post anything as he two of you can create controversy yourselves!
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Well, if he observed a few trainees in every course (by video), that would already be more than Cambridge moderators, who don’t visit every course and only observe a couple of practice teaching sessions when they do.
Obviously the most important thing with moderation is how many things the moderators need to look at, how strict the criteria are to pass, and how often courses are told to pull up their socks or they won’t be able to offer the course any more. I don’t know any of those things for either Cambridge or TI, but my limited experience with Cambridge would suggest that moderation is not, as TG suggests, as vigorous as it could be. As it says in my Loving and Hating the CELTA post, that is why I am always looking for other courses I can recommend. However, Trinity moderation seems worse than Cambridge moderation (e.g. the Paul Lowe/ Windsor TEFL saga), and for TI see above. I’d love to learn more about SIT to see if at least they are doing things properly…
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And you admit ti is better. Well done.
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You really do have problems with reading comprehension, don’t you? Or is it critical thinking skills? I said that IF that is true then that one aspect of the moderation process that would be better. Or is that what you meant to write?
Banging on about it the whole time is a bit pointless and dipping into it doesn’t prove much, but I also do think that TI’s openness with moderation reports and student feedback is a good thing. Just added that to the post.
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PS, if you really think that I think the CELTA is perfect it proves that:
– You didn’t read this blog post properly
– You have never read anything on this blog that is not about TI
And I’m the one who’s supposed to have a TI obsession…
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“Well, if he observed a few trainees in every course (by video), that would already be more than Cambridge moderators, who don’t visit every course and only observe a couple of practice teaching sessions when they do.”
True, but the way they put it up on the website would certainly appears misleading. He states using his name on most if not all reports: “ Each trainee appeared to be comfortable, confident and competent during observed teaching practice.” “yes”
Let’s say that Ti has 12,000 trainees , so he is responsible for 1,000 per month or 250 per week. Maybe he spot checks 25 a week? So what the “yes” really means is that he would personally have no idea about that 900 out of a 1000 of those people.
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So now Tomlinson is a liar. Man I love this blog.
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I wouldn’t be very happy about it if I was TI, but have decided I can’t be bothered deleting the comments of these two “defenders” of TEFL International. Do you think it is friends like these that made Bruce ask everyone to stop commenting the last time things kicked off?
Bring back Teacher Girl! Even with her putting words into my mouth etc and quitting when I started agreeing with some things she said (presumably because she couldn’t turn it into a fight anymore), at least most of her comments had something worth replying to!
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I’m just pointing out the obvious. Your butt buddy teflista is calling Tomlinson a liar. Love it.
And you admit ti moderation is likely better than celta, then desperately back track.
The two of you are pathetic.
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By the way, we are simply treating you with the same disrespect you treat tefl international and all the teachers that holds that certificate. why should we treat you with respect when you fail to do so? So you might as well get use to it. Lol
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Maybe somebody needs to create 50 blocks all about Alex Case. We can say things like “I’m not sure if this is true but I heard that Alex Case is xyz. Hey if you can disprove it, go ahead. This is what I heard.”
Sounds like fun!
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You just carry on commenting here or set up your own blog or whatever, I’ll comment when someone makes a point worth responding to. I really truly feel sorry for TI that no readers will ever get as far as the serious comments because of you and your ilk.
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Try actually admitting tg was spot on and you are biased. That’s a start.
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Moderation Report
Moderator Name:
Brian Tomlinson
Course Location:
Sydney
Course Start Date:
26/9/2011
Report Date:
17/11/2011
11. Teaching Practice
“B. The course provided a minimum 6 students per class
Yes”
“17. Total number of trainees: 4
Number of trainees passed: 4
Number of trainees failed: 0
Number of trainees that withdrew: 0 “
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Moderator Name: Brian Tomlinson
Course Location: Surabaya, Indonesia
Course Date: 06/12/2010
Report Date: 07/1/2011
11. Teaching Practice
“B. The course provided a minimum 6 students per class: Yes”
“17. Total number of trainees: 4
Number of trainees passed: 4
Number of trainees failed: 0
Number of trainees that withdrew: 0”
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It would appear that some courses are being run with only 4 trainees — could be good or could be bad, depending upon how one looks at it.
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So one way that TI claims to be better is to prepare people to teach adults, children and large classes. So out of those six students that they are teaching, how many are children, how many are adults and how is this situation a large class? Should trainees finish a course and then to go on to teach in a public school, say in Thailand, they will then be faced with teaching 40-60 students in a classroom. The stress of taking a TEFL certificate course in nothing compared to standing in front of class of 60 for the first time and not knowing what to do.
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As people have pointed out, it is a long time since these first discussed these things on this blog, but the way I remember it is…
The large class sizes are part of adapting the course to the local teaching situation and so wouldn’t count for all places. It’s certainly possible to argue that CELTA being quite standardized is a weakness. However, as teachers have at least a 50% (figure picked out of the air) chance of working in another country sooner or later and any generalisation about a country are exactly that (e.g. 90% of my classes in Thailand were no bigger than in other countries I’ve taught in, though I know that is untypical it is true), the other side of the argument is just as easy to argue.
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About Brian Tomlinson, if any of those three ever come back I’d love to ask them if they’d actually heard of him before he joined TI and if so why they are joining the official position of him being a “world famous teacher trainer” as Bruce said (is there any such thing as a teacher trainer, rather than conference speaker, who is world famous???) rather than the expert on materials development he quite clearly is. I can prove that I had heard of him because I’d written about him long before (https://tefltastic.wordpress.com/2009/01/26/tefl-book-reviews-new-low/) but the few people I know in real life who followed the TI threads all asked “Is he really that famous?”
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And if they are still reading I’d like to point out the interesting stat that even with those three clicking on this post again and again, the post on this blog “Don’t do the CELTA” has got more hits in the last week than this post has.
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Latest TI-related post here:
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I’ve only just realised it myself, but it seems clear from that post I’ve linked to in the last comment that for about two years that centre has not reached the TEFL International minimum standards for trainer qualifications (already lower than the Cambridge ones) – perhaps because they apparently went through the application process to become a TEFL International course in weeks or even just days.
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