About 18 months after the messy implosion of the last TEFL course on the Chiang Mai University campus, it seems they are finally starting another course there in April, and someone has written to me asking if it is “legit”. Here are my conclusions from a brief look at the whole website:
Positives
– It’s 300 dollars cheaper than the CELTA at International House Bangkok at present exchange rates (40,000 baht v 1,600 dollars).
– The fact that the certificate is issued by a university, signed by a Vice President etc does make it look fairly impressive to employers, especially within Thailand.
– One of the trainers has a PhD.
Negatives
– That PhD has no connection to TEFL.
– Neither of the two trainers has a Diploma-level TEFL qualification, that being the absolute minimum for Cambridge CELTA and Trinity CertTESOL trainers, nor an MA in TESOL/ TEFL.
– Neither of the trainers seems to have any teacher training experience (unheard of for both trainers in Cambridge and Trinity courses, and in fact most other 4 week certs).
– It is quite possible they only have two years’ experience of actual TEFL teaching experience each.
– The course, trainers and centre are totally new and so untested and totally unknown by employers (the testimonials must be from the last course, the one CMU suddenly kicked off the premises and refused to provide refunds for).
– The course is on the campus and has some supervision from the university but is in the totally separate University Language Institute. Though it’s difficult to imagine lightning striking the same place twice, that theoretically means that if the course collapsed or was kicked out like the last one at CMU they could again refuse to refund anyone’s money or sponsor the visas of people who had arrived to take the course.
– Supporting an organisation that let that happen the last time around kind of stinks morally.
– Ditto for an organisation that was involved with “Dr” Matt Kay for such a long time.
– University or no university, it is one small and brand new TEFL course in a country that is famous for dodgy TEFL courses, so it’s not going to be in the top ten of most desirable TEFL courses for employers, let alone enough to get you a job in the British Council someday (“In the past, successful graduates went on to teaching positions in Vietnam, South Korea, China, Japan, South America and Europe.” obviously refers to the previous course on the premises, the one they suddenly cancelled and refused to accept any responsibility for).
– Employers seaching CMU TEFL to find out more about your TEFL certificate will find all kinds of bad publicity online.
Seem like a fair summary?
TEFLtastic 
Excellent analysis and systematic debunking! Bravo!
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Thanks for your review, Alex.
Once again, CMU never ceases to amaze me. Here they’ve got one unqualified “trainer” with no proper TEFL qualifications whatsoever, and another one who is under-qualified. What sort of message does this communicate? Is it, no qualifications are needed in order to become a teacher or teacher trainer? If so, then no need to take their TEFL course.
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Thanks guys.
I emailed the link to CMU, but no response yet. If other people can do the same maybe they will take it more seriously and so answer their critics and/ or make some changes.
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Do NOT do the CMU TEFL. It is terrible. I know I did it and left after two weeks. DON’T WASTE YOUR MONEY!!!!!
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People might need a little more detail to know how to take your review.
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Hmm, looks like the sort of set-up that Paul Lowe would be proud of!
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I’m very weary of this set up, they turfed everyone out, management students, course the lot in 2010, said they weren’t going to run a TEFL anymore then presto this starts up. Looking at their site they’re not accredited to anyone in the TEFL world, the trainer has no experience or qualification in TEFL, only two years experience teaching, where did they get their curriculum? The head of the dept is a former French lecturer who knows jack sh*t about TEFL. Chances are they’ll fold the program on short notice like they did before, I wouldn’t give them any money in advance if I were you. I did for the Thai course and they flatly refused to refund me back in 2010, this University is shameful.
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A friend of mine did this course a few months ago, said half the class quit before the end because they didn’t like the training. They didn’t go out to a real school to do teacher prac, most of it was done on each other. I heard one of the trainers is leaving end of this month, these guys have no TEFL background, they’re just in it to make a quick buck using the University’s name, Alex you should investigate.
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I wish I had enough free time to investigate every dodgy course in Thailand, or even the world, but with 24 hours of teaching a week, 5 articles and 12 worksheets a month, editing reviews for TEFL.net, the odd review or article in MET, these kinds of posts only happen when I am basically forced into it…
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Me again, I looked into this a bit, spoke to a couple of people locally, one of whom worked for the previous CMU TEFL and left as soon as the sh*t hit the fan, he’s still in comms with a couple of the Thais working there apparently, he had this to say;
After the whole thing at CMU fell to pieces back in 2010, the President didn’t want the bad publicity associated with the foreigners and TEFL, so that was one reason for shutting it all down and turfing everyone out. But, there were individuals involved who saw the money potential, ‘business orientated’ Thais within the university as he described them (not academics) and later they persuaded the president to restart it all. One of them is a guy called Kerem who was fired by the original TEFL LI management, this guy is a nephew of the President and the main motivator behind restarting tefl courses at CMU. Kerem is good at marketing and now in charge there, but has no background in TEFL. He basically put the course together and pulled teachers from the university who were keen to become trainers, they slapped together a curriculum using what was left over from the previous course, modified it and presto, you have a ‘University accredited TEFL’. I don’t think they quite realise what is required of a tefl course, but hey, with a university name behind you anything is possible right? It’s surprising that after suffering one blow to their reputation the University would risk restarting a tefl course again without doing it properly.
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During the time of the huge CMU disaster, Matt Kay wore two hats. Not only was he in charge of the TEFL program but he was also in charge of International Programs, and both were run out of the Language Institute. During that time, Kerem and Kay shared the same two-man administrative office and Kerem was Kay’s assistant. Kerem is a relative of the University President (my understanding is that he is his son, but nephew might be more accurate), and that is exactly why Kay was able to get away with what he did and all without even having any teaching or higer qualifications of any kind. Kerem left Thailand at one point to study in the UK (probably arranged, in part, through the CMU International Programs office), so if he’s back, then they’ve now got Kay’s former right-hand man now running the show.
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And all of this makes complete sense. Kay’s greedy and unorthodox business model was to give himself a direct share of all profits, which encouraged a more bums-on-seats approach rather than an actual focus on education. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if part of the deal also included a direct cut in profit sharing for the President himself, who of course, would be fast to rubber stamp his approval of it and push the program through. Nor would I be at all surprised to learn, that Kay’s cut of profits also included and under the table cut back to upper administration or the President , also for pushing it through and keeping it all going. Unfortunately, this is sometimes how business is done in Thailand.
Anyway, during part of the period while much of this was happening, Kerem was there observing how all of this ran and was put together – probably there , too, to keep a close eye on things and make sure that that one con man wasn’t short changing the other. Now that Kay is gone, so is his cut of profit sharing, so brining back Kerem would be the perfect way starting all up again, but this time ensuring that all of the money ‘stays in the family’.
More about profit sharing and the Language Institute here:
https://tefltastic.wordpress.com/tefl/t-training/university-language-institute/
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Hello,
When you say ‘Kerem’, do you mean ‘Karim’? I’ve been enquiring about doing the TEFL with CMU and obviously I wanted to hear both sides. Whilst most of the feedback is very good for CMU, you did certainly stop me in my tracks with some of the writings.
I can understand the shaky ground the course must be on after what happened and so I understand your scepticism but some of what you say appears incorrect from what I gather. You reference two trainers quite a lot and not a TEFL diploma/MA between them but in actual fact there are quite a few more than two and those are exactly the qualifications they seem to have. There is varying levels of experience in different fields, yes but they are closely linked and in a positive light- I can see this only as an advantage- one that the trainers reference themselves. They have a lot of teaching experience, experience in Thai culture, classroom environment and education between them which as teaching goes, breadth is paramount. Therefore, I’m glad to say I wasn’t put off by the comments, they simply helped me to come to a conclusion so thank you.
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The whole thing smells of musical chairs to me Alex. I know what’s going on there; firstly Emma Shaw, with the PhD in spiders has already left to teach at a private school. The other trainer, Robyn Stewart, has handed in her notice from what I hear, and will be leaving Thailand at the end of July. The others are new, so effectively you have a brand new team as of August 1st. Samantha Burman doesn’t seem to have any prior TEFL training experience, nor qualification, in fact the clever wording in the bio suggests she might not even have a TEFL cert nor have actually been a TEFL teacher. Same goes for Roy Nixon who sounds impressive with his MA in Linguistics but again, I just don’t see any TEFL teaching or training experience. Then there is Sean O’Leary who seems to have some background in TEFL, and teaching English, with the correct qualifications but again, I don’t see any evidence of recent experience as an actual trainer. So there you have it, high staff turnover (the program is only 6 months old) replace them with a bunch of enthusiastic rookies. Reading your recent posts about dodgy TEFLs, and the need to have experienced and qualified trainers makes you wonder about this lot. Smacks of ‘hey, lets run a TEFL course’.
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Now THAT sounds like a great idea, Mark! Anybody fancy a “Sandy McManus Certificate in TEFL” course? My USPs are oodles of experience, enough paper qualifications to wallpaper yer toilet, and a keen insider’s view of the industry.
Sound like a go-er, Mark, Alex?
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While you’re at it, just call it the “Sandy McManus Advanced Diploma in TEFL” . Nobody will ever notice, with all of the other dodgy courses going on in Thailand…
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Update: I’ve just heard today that CMU have cancelled their August course. It’s no longer listed on their site. Apparently they don’t have trainers available. It’s interesting to see the comments that have been added since I last looked in here, I know that they were signing up people quite regularly so who knows what they’ve told all these people. Do they get a refund? Could this be them closing it down again? I see comments here about new trainers, looking on their site I see they list four trainers, so it sounds strange to me that none of them are available. Anyone know what’s going on??? What a shambles.
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Who’s paying you muppets?
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Mark, Apparently you could do with an ESL/EFL reading course yourself. Go back and re-read some of those bios; your skimming and scanning abilities missed some obvious experience in those who you say don’t seem to have any. Does this reveal a lack of experience in the field on your part? It might also surprise you to know that some people do devote their careers and lives to intensive study of a field, not only teaching in it for over 20 years but also studying both WHAT and HOW to teach at a level beyond even a “Certificate.”
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I’m glad I found this site, because I was going to consider CMU Tefl program as legitimate. I will keep researching less seedy operational reputations. I just love how foolish these crooks can think they can swindle people from their money when the internet is so powerful and can make or break a company through such reviews. Again, thanks for putting this information out there for potential teachers who want to get certified.
Cheers in China,
Aaron
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Does anyone know what’s going on at Chiang Mai University. They cancelled their August 2013 course it seems, no class is running (I went in yesterday), though on their website they say ‘full’, September is also ‘full’, are they without a trainer? Closing up? I was thinking of signing up but this has me worried given they closed down once before. Bit deceptive.
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I met the team over there at the university, and I know they are actually full – had to apply for the TEFL course in October. Even had the opportunity to observe a current session taking place. Super busy over at CMU.
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Thanks for your comment, Jenny.
As just someone applying to study at CMU, can you explain how you share an IP address with someone calling him/herself “J Woodgate” and asking “So, UniTEFL are neither accredited by MOE nor registered as a school? Is this a safe assumption?” in June this year?
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CMUTEFL set to collapse again. If you’ve sent them money (2013), get it back.
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It seems unlikely that anyone who was in the know could leave such a vague and evidence-free comment to me.
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Alex, Maybe the amount I have to tell about this place is longer than one of your previous articles about it AND more detailed than anything you’ve ever had about it before; thus, it’s taking some time to write it all up. Next time you put on your deerstalker, pick up your logic book and review “modus ponens” and “modus tollens.” If you want “the poop,” stay tuned; otherwise, I’ll share my INformation elsewhere.
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That’s rather a bizarre “threat” – I don’t mind where you publish as long as you do so. However, if you can put together some evidence I’d certainly be happy to have it here or at least put a link to it.
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Further to this, CMU TEFL are alive and well and seem to be making efforts to improve and be taken seriously, they didn’t run a december course (I inquired) but did have 7 students in Jan according to their Facebook. They have a new website too, looks good but as always I spotted a few howling fibs, for one they claim to have taught over 500 students even though they’ve only been operational since mid 2012 – unless of course they are laying claim to all those trained by a completely different TEFL course management that they threw out in 2011 and closed down for a year. The promise of a visa is rubbish since there’s no such thing as ed visas offered for 1 month study courses. Then there’s the rather vague allusion to ‘memorandums of understandings with 225 Universities around the world’ insinuating that this TEFL is widely recognised worldwide. As Alex will point out, it’s just another piece of paper like every other TEFL, in this case trained on a University campus that allows the use of their name. On the plus side there’s now a lengthy explanation about how they will be monitored by a team from a faculty, for regular moderation of their ‘accreditation’, though that’s all future tense as there has never been any connection between the language institute, it’s TEFL course and the Faculty of Education. I’d be interested to see if this ever takes place. It’s also worth noting that no test is given at the end of this course, everyone gets certified whether you’ve learnt anything or not. This was confirmed to me by someone who recently took the course. I’m not saying you won’t get properly trained nor fail to find a job with this certificate but as with many of these TEFLs, read between the lines and do your homework. Compare with other TEFLs in Thailand and read up on why some are highly regarded. Be wary of hubris (the ONLY TEFL on a university campus). I signed up to this course in 2010 impressed that it was a university, then they closed down and I never got refunded. I heard of another guy who applied for a teaching job at the CMU LI and was told he would only be employed if he had their TEFL cert. There must be a reason why so few universities around the world run TEFL courses, perhaps its because TEFL can be such a sleazy business.
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I have tried to search for a legitimate tefl course and I find it difficult to see if the programs are truly accredited. I am considering international tefl academy. Has anyone tried to take this course? If so, is it legitimate and acceptable by employers? It is online but it would be easier to find a job after I take the tefl course and then go to Thailand for a teaching job.
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I think they’re all scams overseas. You might try a few classes at your local university wherever you are. The US and UK both have some good programs. I have seen programs in Thailand run by people with fake PhDs from America and others run by people with a degree in sociology or an online Master’s, neither of which is much substitute for having a trainer with some experience in applied linguistics. Some program directors don’t even seem to know what linguistics is, so there you go…
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I took the one month TEFL Certificate course at LI CMU in February 2008, and must say that it was excellent. Only met Matt Kay the day I arrived – never saw him again. He was not involved at all in the training – it was conducted by an organisation called TEFL International, and the Certificate was issued on their paper, signed by the director (at the time) of the Language Institute, who I believe was a CMU employee. The two fulltime trainers were excellent, and students did seven or eight prac classes at local schools. I am very happy with the start they gave me in a new career – I now have ten years TEFL teaching in mainstream Thai schools under my belt. I have also completed a BA (Phil) with Macquarie University in Sydney and am currently working on a M Ed (TESOL) with the University of Wollongong. I am just glad that I was not caught up in all the crap that happened later.
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